20150907 create.the-knowledge.org

20150907 create.the-knowledge.org

Postby tahanson43206 » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:59 pm

discuss.the-knowledge.org is coming back to life after a quiet period.

The forum software has a number of features to facilitate communication.
It also has some statistical reporting capabilities.

From my perspective, Dr. Dartnell's mission to bring about positive change to PREVENT loss of civilization would be advanced by introduction of an additional web forum, to supplement his several existing web sites.

The forum I have in mind would have a name similar to: create.the-knowledge.org

A distinguishing feature is that each person Dr. Dartnell admits to the forum membership would be able to manage the replies to the messages originated by that member.

In effect, each member would be a Moderator for that member's threads.

discuss.the-knowledge.org has no moderators, and Dr. Dartnell as Administrator maintains a very light hand on the flow of traffic.

The proposed forum would provide power for each member similar to publishing their own blog, but each such blog would be part of the larger structure, which would therefore have all the search and statistics features we see in discuss.the-knowledge.org

Categories for Military, Commerce, Education, Health and many others could be added, all with the purpose of facilitating individual achievement leading to progress for the entire community.

(th)
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Re: 20150907 create.the-knowledge.org: Grow Systems

Postby tahanson43206 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:37 pm

As a follow up to the proposal, here is an example of an activity that can be emulated by members of The Knowledge forum:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories ... iners.html

This article by Naomi Nishihara of the Dallas Morning News describes how Glenn Behrman has a second career developing a "vertical gardening" system housed in a shipping container.

The $75,000 container (and $3000 racks) is/are a model for growing systems that DO NOT depend upon sunlight (directly) or land on the surface of the Earth.

I am confident that these systems show the way forward for Mars and the Moon, but more importantly, for accommodating the needs of a growing population on Earth.

In particular, it is clear to me that such systems can be incorporated into ocean floating habitats to provide safe, comfortable environments for the millions of refugees we have today, and will have in the future.

The mental block that we all experience, that we HAVE to live on land, prevents us from developing ocean based living systems.

Unlike the land surface of the Earth, the ocean offers true 3 dimensional room, with expansion possible below the surface as well as above and to the side.

There is a natural competition between the need to plan for disaster, and the compelling need to prevent disaster from occurring by acting BEFORE the disaster.

In The Knowledge forum, it is appropriate and reasonable for individuals to work hard on one of these two major threads, simultaneously, and without conflict.

(th)
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Re: 20150907 create.the-knowledge.org

Postby Billy » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:27 am

The grow-tainers are interesting. The article does not mention what the power consumption is per container or how much water they consume, or where the nutrients the plants need come from...

And then there's their $75,000 price tag. Each. Not including racks.

No schematics, but I assume they are heavily insulated - they can't just be plain steel shipping containers with no insulation. Power consumption to maintain an even temperature in extreme environments would be outrageous...

Though it does mean that, so long as there's power and water and nutrients, folks in hostile environments - deserts and tundra and even the far icy reaches both north and south and even far underground - would be able to grow even the most delicate of plants... Home-grown bananas in Iceland? Heh... :)

What would be really cool - no pun intended - would be to combine the growtainers with geothermal... and hydroelectric. So long as the containers held out, they would continuously produce plants...

You seem very ocean-focused. If you have an artificial 'island', aside from the legal issues, how do you propose to combat corrosion? Hurricanes and typhoons? Not trying to sharpshoot your ideas, but when our mightiest present-day artificial islands - oil rigs - are swatted aside, flipped upsidown and destroyed by monstrous waves, I'm wondering what chance an artificial island with hundreds of thousands of people will fare?

Underwater would at least solve half the problem, but then you encounter a whole slew of new problems - mostly pressure, underwater earthquakes, rock slides, etc... still, it's a fascinating concept. Not that I would volunteer to live in an underwater dome.. :) I like my green mountains too much...
“Life is slavery if the courage to die is absent.” - Seneca
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Re: 20150907 create.the-knowledge.org: growtainer +

Postby tahanson43206 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:12 pm

In reply to Billy ...

Thanks for taking a look at the article, and for your comments on both sides ...

As a civilization advances, everyone becomes more wealthy. We have reached the point where almost everyone who can hold a job can own (or rent) a machine that would have cost billions of dollars just 100 years ago, if it could have been built at all.

The current price of a growtainer is considered modest to owners of restaurants or grocery stores.

The consumption of water is substantially less than consumption by open field agriculture.

Your suggestion of locating growtainers near naturally occurring sources of energy is right on!

For anyone interested in expansion of human habitation to the ocean, there is an abundance of publicly available information, including web sites, books, articles and (ultimately) the people behind them.

Some years ago, an author proposed expansion of habitation out into the ocean as a prelude to expansion into space.

While the problems to be solved are significant, they pale compared to the problems to be solved for habitation away from Earth.

It appears that the ideal location to begin building floating habitats is at the equator, because storms begin there as trade winds, and gather strength as they head North and South.

There is a 100 year old technology called OTEC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_the ... conversion)

This is a very inefficient process that has never-the-less, received significant investment over the decades. A modern version (not yet implemented) would substitute photons and electrons for the movement of massive amounts of water. At the time OTEC was invented, quantum physics had not yet been discovered, so the only working fluid available was massive molecules of water.

The model for a (modern) OTEC system already exists in the form of land based systems: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_S ... r_Facility)

If the Ivanpah system were implemented at the equator, and the photons from the mirrors directed down a shaft to the cool ocean depths, then heat energy conversion efficiency on the order of 80% is possible.

A side benefit of such a system is that the water heated at the boiler location far below the mirror platform would cause the nutrient rich ocean water to rise along the vertical structure, which would lead to development of a robust aquaculture as well.

(th)
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Re: 20150907 create.the-knowledge.org: Vertical gardens

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:31 pm

Indoor agriculture is continuing to receive investment.

A recent evening news report showed examples of installations in several locations in the US, and there are sites in other nations.

Advocates of different methods are competing, and that's good!

Misting, dripping and total immersion are the three methods of supplying roots that I am aware of right now, beyond traditional soil.

Google served up thousands of results for a search for: misting roots vertical garden

A sufficient number of the articles cited offer affordable concepts so that it is feasible for members of this forum to build and report on experiments with the technology.

(th)
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Re: 20150907 create.the-knowledge.org: "The Martian"

Postby tahanson43206 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:55 pm

The movie "The Martian" (and the book upon which it is based) contain the elements of an idea which might be of interest to a number of people.

The focus of this message is the proposition that potatoes can be grown indoors. Those were real plants, and that was a real garden shown growing in the Arabian desert.

It is possible to imagine a growing kit for a single potato, that would be tended by an experimenter until the plant is grown large enough for splitting, as shown in the movie.

Expanding the basic premise a bit, with a bit of stretching, it is possible to imagine an individual family growing most of its produce indoors.

Stretching further, it is possible to imagine the national navies of several countries expanding the capability of existing nuclear submarines to provide produce for the crew, thanks to ample power on tap.

A retired bomb launcher could be refitted so that growing spaces occupy the former launch chambers. This work would help to advance understanding of how to support a crew away from Earth.

Stretching further, it is possible to imagine the Martian settlement growing most of its produce indoors.

the-knowledge.org could serve as one of the reference points on the Internet for propagation of the inspiration provided by Andy Weir with his work.

(th)
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