20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:45 pm

20170312 Massive greenhouse

Since the purpose and focus of this thread is to encourage potential authors to build their next work in Dr. Dartnell's forum, here is a topic that could (it seems to me) accumulate to the size of a book, over time.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/business ... olkRf79EJ/

This story was written by Kara Driscoll - staff Writer

I am interested in this planned expansion by Golden Fresh Farms of Canada, because it shows a way forward for supply of fresh produce for humans on Earth today and in the future, but more importantly (from my perspective) it shows the way forward for production of fresh produce on Mars or the Moon, or anywhere else human communities may set up shop away from Earth.

Artificial lighting is provided to supplement natural lighting. Of particular interest (to me at least) is the use of 90 bee hives to help with pollination.

(th)
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Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:00 am

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

20170318 element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 3 on page 10.

In this paragraph, Dr. Dartnell identifies two key concepts:

Begin Quotation:
...the scientific method. The key to preserving civilization is to provide a condensed seed...
End Quotation.

While my interest is primarily in trying to see how the future might unfold as humans move away from the Earth, I am quite interested in identifying ways to preserve and convey knowledge right here and now, on Earth, in 2017.

In the past couple of weeks, Dave Z has led discussion of the idea of encapsulating concepts from “The Knowledge” and related concepts in hard plastic laminated sheets such as those from:

https://permacharts.com

as just one example. It seems to me that a collection of these charts and guides would make a very nice care package from this generation to one far in the future.

In a nod to the concept of creating an economy based upon atom assembly machinery underway elsewhere in this forum, today I'd like to discuss fabrication of a folding table from:

http://www.lifetime.com

The particular table I have is Model 28241. The web site shows model 28240, which seems identical.

https://www.lifetime.com/lifetime-28240 ... ble-almond

Let us suppose we are on Mars (or a similar location away from Earth) and our economy is based upon atom assemblers instead of the complex system of manufacture that exists on Earth in 2017.

Taking the elements of the Lifetime table #28240 as an example:

1 Top This is a large plastic component

I will estimate it would take a year to “grow” this component

If a citizen/family/business needs one of these, and a used
one is not available, then they could place an order for
delivery in a year.

2 Side metal angle iron

Two of these are needed. I will estimate a month for each

3 Clips to hold legs. Two are needed. Estimate a few days.

4 Pipe [Note that these are welded together]

It seems reasonable to suppose that welding capability
would be a “normal” and expected part of a reasonably
large community away from Earth.

a. Long pipes for legs. Four are needed. Estimate 1 month each.
b. Medium pipes for ends. Need 3. Estimate 2 weeks each.

5 Feet: Need four. Estimate 2 days each

6 Pivot Pin: Need 1 – Estimate 1 week

Note thread on one end for nut, and rounded end cap on other.

7 Locking trigger: This is a complex plastic part

This part is designed to be squeezed to lock or unlock legs
I'm going to estimate a week to fabricate this part.

8 Miscellaneous hardware: four screws and one nut.

I will estimate one machine could make these in a week.
A small job shop might be able to complete this order using only two atom assemblers. The larger would be dedicated to assembling the table top in a year, while the smaller could prepare the remaining components over the course of the year.

Welding and assembly of the undercarriage would take a few days at most.

(th)
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Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

20170325 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 4 on page 10, which continues over onto page 11.

In this paragraph, Dr. Dartnell reminds us of the importance of the preservation of ancient knowledge (principally from Greece and Rome) by Arab scholars.

While my interest is primarily in trying to see how the future might unfold as humans move away from the Earth, I am quite interested in identifying ways to preserve and convey knowledge right here and now, on Earth, in 2017.

In the past couple of weeks, Dave Z has led discussion of the idea of encapsulating concepts from “The Knowledge” and related concepts in hard plastic laminated sheets and similar durable vehicles.

Meanwhile, I have been thinking about how digital knowledge could be preserved in a form that could be expected to survive for thousands of years, AND have the feature that the contents of the medium could be extracted by "hand", using simple microscopes fitted with simple spectroscopy equipment (lens, grating, lighting, mirrors, etc).

Such a system could (presumably) be employed in 2017 to insure stable, durable archival storage of currently evanescent digital data, most of which exists as magnetic fields on the surfaces of rotating disks, or electric charges in Flash memory and its relatives.

The mechanism I have in mind is a thread of metal (such as copper) as the foundation for the storage mechanism. The thread would be coated with one of five other atom types to signify:
1) Digital Bit ON (1), 2) Digital Bit OFF (0), 3) High order bit signal (at high order end of a byte), 4) Low order bit signal (at low order end of a byte).

Thus, the storage mechanism would consist of arrangements of five atom types, chosen for compatibility with the copper framework material, and suitable for characterization "by hand" using simple optical spectroscopy equipment.

Certainly such data encoded thread could be read at high speed by suitable equipment. However, the design concept here is to create an archival storage system capable of all of:

1) Long life measured in centuries or millennia
2) Capability of "reading" by hand using simple equipment
3) Capability of "reading" my machine
***
As a followup on 2017/03/29, here is an example of a spool of copper "thread" which might be suitable as a base material for a 10,000 year digital data storage system:
https://www.amazon.com/Remington-Indust ... B0082CUOWC

Begin Quotation from Amazon listing:
Remington Industries
Remington Industries 28SNSP Magnet Wire, Enameled Copper Wire, 28 AWG, 1.0 lb., 2027' Length, 0.0135" Diameter, Red
Price: $16.98 & FREE Shipping on orders over $35. Details
End Quotation.

Assuming a conservative distance of one centimeter per bit or control element, this spool would be able to hold 61,783 bits. Assuming the proposed storage structure of 10 bits per byte is applied, this spool would thus hold 6,178 bytes of data which would be readable by manual inspection or by a machine designed to more rapidly pass the thread.

An alternative is to place human readable introductory data at both ends of the spool at the 1 centimeter per bit density, and to then store the balance of the data at a machine readable density of 1 millimeter per bit, which would allow for something on the order of 60,000 bytes of long term storage.

The 1 millimeter density is offered as potentially within the reach of a person (human or alien) attempting to read the stored data 10,000 years in the future.

***
2017/03/30 Update
A potential market exists for storage of non-volatile digital data, because governments are requiring long term storage of video data from automobile webcams and now from individual webcams.

The 10,000 year scenario calls for data storage that can be decoded by hand by persons who have only rudimentary knowledge of the science we humans have accumulated over millennia, and certainly over recent centuries. For that scenario I am thinking of making the bit segments on the order of 1 centimeter long, which would mean that a spool of magnet wire I found for sale on Amazon would hold about 6,000 characters.

6,000 characters is a LOT, if you are living on carcasses of animals you killed with a spear.

On the other hand, theoretically, data density could be squeezed down to the nanoscale, although according to the article below, it would be more practical to settle for micron length for individual bits.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/9 ... ithography

The length of a roll of 24 AWG magnet wire on Amazon (for $16.71) is 803 feet, or 244.754 meters.

That length would hold 24 Megabytes of data you don't want to risk losing.

That really ** would ** be non-volatile data storage. The only way to "erase" data in that format would be to melt the copper.

Amazon carries a (to me surprising) number of inexpensive spectroscopes. It would be helpful to know if these devices are capable of resolving differences between atom types in the copper thread scenario.

***
Update on 2017/03/30: Magnet wire comes coated with a layer of insulating material (such as shellac). It seems reasonable to suppose that a feasible way of implementing data storage as described above, is to add a layer of insulating coating on top of the existing coating. If coatings are chosen for their optical properties, they can convey bit information via spectroscopy as described above. If coatings are chosen for electrical properties, then (presumably) reading machines can pull bit information from the thread using electronic methods. Perhaps the two reading methods could be implemented as a check on each other.
***
The Atom Assembler topic I would like to introduce today is the humble "air filter"

The topic is current here, because yesterday was the day when the furnace filter was replaced in this household.

The air filter for a furnace might not be suitable for fabrication by an atom assembler, as it is realized in 2017, in the United States and presumably elsewhere.

This would seem to be an example of a product that would best be re-thought for the capabilities and limitations of the atom assembly process.

The function to be served is capture of objects floating in air. Air filters (in 2017) come in various grades, capable of capturing various sizes of particulate matter and other contaminants.

Many (if not most) air filters for furnace application are equipped with wire frames to hold the filter material against the pressure of air flowing through the furnace ducts.

Many (if not most) air filters are enclosed within cardboard frames for convenient handling by the end user.

All of these capabilities would (presumably) be designed into a system to be "grown" in an atom assembler.

I would estimate a month would be needed to fabricate a typical furnace filter.

(th)
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Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:13 am

20170401 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 1 on page 11, which appears immediately after the heading "ACCELERATED DEVELOPMENT".

In this paragraph, Dr. Dartnell creates a vision of a way to "chart an optimal route" for survivors to recreate knowledge and technologies in the fastest way possible.

While my interest is primarily in trying to see how the future might unfold as humans move away from the Earth, I am quite interested in identifying ways to preserve and convey knowledge right here and now, on Earth, in 2017.

This week, I'd like to take up an issue not considered by Dr. Dartnell, because the mission he undertook was complex enough, but which it seems to me must be addressed. That issue is: why would we imagine that a book written in early 21st century English would be understandable to the generation which follows the immediate survivors, let alone generations of centuries later. This is not a criticism of "The Knowledge". It is simply a fact, that the question of how English, or any language, would be transmitted faithfully from the generation which experienced the collapse to future generations is not addressed.

Edward M. Lerner, in his work on "InterstellarNet" assumed that alien races and the human protagonists of his story would have to build up a common understanding element by element over an extended period of time. The "Rosetta Stone" was useful for learning how to read Egyptian hieroglyphs precisely because Ancient Greek was known to the French military officer (Pierre Francois Bouchard), and he brought the stone to the attention of his superiors, which led to its study in subsequent years.

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone

My interest today, is in the matter of how a valuable book such as "The Knowledge", or the "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics" can be rendered useful to a group of people who have only a few scattered remnants of English to work with, or never learned it at all.

The history of Pictographs may provide useful guides for a team considering this challenge.

***
The atom assembly topic I'd like to introduce today is manufacture of rope, including thread for sewing at the smaller end of the scale, twisted wire for electronic circuits, and larger scale examples all the way to hawsers for nautical applications.

It seems to me that 3D Printers that exist today could show a way forward, by extruding threads that are interwoven by moving the print heads with respect to each other so as to create supple and strong structures. That example can (presumably) be extended to the atom assembler, which can extrude streams of atoms of a wide variety as needed for various applications.

(th)
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Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:01 am

20170408 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 1 on page 12, which begins at the bottom of page 11.

In this paragraph, Dr. Dartnell reminds us that discoveries are often serendipitous. A key role of the kind of "nuggets of knowledge" package that Dr. Dartnell has undertaken is to provide shortcuts to many discoveries that occurred in our history, through the happy circumstance of a prepared mind and an event. I'd like to focus here on the second half of this paragraph, wherein Dr. Dartnell points out the importance of "systematic and methodical investigation". It is my impression that very few Americans, and perhaps very few humans, are capable of doing detailed, persistent study of anything.

It seems to me that a leader of a small group attempting to recover lost knowledge might do well to try to identify potential "scientific investigators" as soon as possible, so as to bring them under the influence of an elder who might have already demonstrated such traits, and to try to build up a culture within the community that would support them. From general observation, I would guess that the majority of members of any community might find themselves more interested in less intellectually challenging pursuits, which would be themselves of value for survival of the group, and potentially for support of improvements in the quality of life that might be achieved over time.

Dr. Dartnell closes this paragraph with a forecast of the scope of "The Knowledge", which (it might be hoped) would assist the chosen "scientific investigator" in selecting specific topics to pursue.

While my interest is primarily in trying to see how the future might unfold as humans move away from the Earth, I am quite interested in identifying ways to preserve and convey knowledge right here and now, on Earth, in 2017.

The topic I'd like to consider for an economy based upon atom assemblers in this week's contribution, is glass.

With 3D Printing as a conceptual model, and with the slow accumulation of mass which Nature demonstrates in "building" trees, plants in general, and all living things as the framework, I am today visualizing an atom assembler devoted to "manufacture" of glass objects of all kinds, from "Mason" food storage jars through goblets to scientific instruments, such as prisms and lens.

While "traditional" methods of glass working seem very likely to become part of the community activity on Mars or the Moon, I expect it would be desirable for most members of the community to be able to accept requests to fabricate particular glass structures with their personally owned atom assembler. In the normal workings of the capitalist system, if there is sufficient need (demand) for particular glass objects, then it would make sense for individuals to band together to make traditional production facilities, but it seems likely to me there will always be "needs" for objects that do not fit into whatever "mass" production systems might develop. What is more, digital designs for glass objects are likely to be exchanged through the communications "InterstellarNet" described by Edward M. Lerner, and these will tend to be created first on atom assemblers for evaluation, before a potential market for duplicates might justify investment in a traditional production run.

Design of atom assemblers to build glass objects will require solutions to the challenge of creating random arrangements of atoms, as compared to highly ordered crystals.

2017/04/09 Addendum: Today a broadcast of an interview with a "robot" caught my attention. The interview featured a gent with a British accent, and the robot was confused for a while, until it "learned" the subtlety of the accent.

The source of the topic covered may be found by entering a Google search for "martine rothblatt robot",

However, for the purposes of "The Knowledge", and for a contribution to this forum, I'd like to toss out for consideration a project that might just be within the realm of achieveability.

Because of the rapid advance of Artificial Intelligence, it might be possible to build a system that could carry the essential knowledge to support a civilization in a talking head form. It might even be possible to include capabilities to project images on a flat surface.

The neat thing about this idea is that it could (presumably) be adapted to create a robot to provide a first world education to every child, including those in the United States who are not currently receiving even a third world education.

This would work if such robots could be be deployed in sufficient abundance so that the price becomes affordable to the wealthy donors would be funding it, along with donations from "ordinary" persons who want to help the cause along.

(th)
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Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:21 pm

20170415 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 2 on page 12.

The key element ( I found ) in this paragraph is the concept of the wheel barrow, which was a simple idea that did not occur to anyone for a remarkably long time after the invention of the wheel.

This is one example of many that Dr. Dartnell's vision of a Quick Start guide might include.

***
The Atom Assembler Economy element I would like to introduce today is related to last week's introduction of the hydrocarbon chain for fuel and lubrication.

It seems to me that a protein assembler might be possible.

A related report describes ongoing research which is directed towards creation of artificial meat, to address the demands for "meat" products as the population of the Earth grows.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-34540193

The point I would like to offer today is that while "manufactured" protein might not be palatable to humans, it should be possible to build up a sequence of growth steps that would lead to "foods" that would be acceptable to existing living creatures.

(th)
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Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:24 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170422 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 3 on page 12.

The key element ( I found ) in this paragraph is the concept of mass production of books, represented in this case by "the movable-type printing press".

This is one example of many that Dr. Dartnell's vision of a Quick Start guide might include.

***
Yesterday I joined a group of (mostly retired) machinists for a trip to an annual exposition in the vicinity of Detroit, Michigan.
http://www.namesexposition.com/expo.htm

The show was interesting, often amazing, and even inspiring in one case. However, the overall impression I got is that the class of American Machinists created by World War II and the Cold War is in its twilight years. The exhibition was much larger in previous years, but as the attendees fall away, the event has relocated and downsized.

Picking up on Dr. Dartnell's overall theme of trying to rebuild advanced capabilities after a setback, I observe with interest that even now, as we have in existence a population of experienced and often highly skilled machinists, we do NOT have a crop of young people eagerly coming along to take their place. There were almost no young people in attendance, except the children of exhibitors.

The exception that stands out was a young woman who showed off a magnetic levitation load pallet she had built. There is no doubt this young woman had the support of her family, but I got the impression she drove the project and did all the work. The presentation was close to professional quality, showing the influence of her father. What is telling is that the young woman (apparently) had the patience and skill to execute well under guidance. She said she was in middle school, and had not begun to think about college. It will not surprise me to learn she lands at MIT if she stays on her present course.

***
The Atom Assembler Economy element I would like to introduce today is related to last week's introduction of the protein sequence for food to supply the bottom of a food chain.

It seems to me that an assembler for medical compounds might be possible.

The development of millions of machinists in the United States and around the world in the 20th Century may have been a unique social phenomenon which will not be repeated.

The microcomputer revolution which my generation experienced was a source of excitement, inspiration and motivation to make extraordinary effort. My guess is that the enthusiasm of that wave of technology may have been quite similar to the wave that preceded it that led to the class of machinists who are now in their final years.

Atom assembly may create a similar wave, accessible to "average" persons and therefore inspiring to them.

(th)
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Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:12 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170429 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 1 on page 13

In this paragraph Dr, Dartnell provides examples of "leapfrogging" over the stages of acquisition of knowledge recorded in our history.

The new topic I'd like to introduce today is a related set:

First, the 2014 edition of "The Knowledge" does not include either the "number system" or "zero" in the index. If those concepts are present in the book I'll find them in this paragraph by paragraph review. However, along with other key concepts, these would seem reasonable to include in a primer for a group of people who have lost contact with the rich history of human discovery.

Since humans are born every day around the world who lack contact with the rich history of human discovery, it occurs to me that both the number system and the concept of zero would be worthy of inclusion in whatever structure of knowledge the community into which these new humans are born is ? planning ? to share.

The second element is a program called "Physics 101" by a company formed in 2001 to offer educational software.
http://www.praetersoftware.com/physics/
The program operates on a shareware basis.

In running Physics 101 recently, it occurred to me that having a tool like that available and running would be a valuable resource for a group trying to rebuild (or build) a semblance of civilization.

This would a fine way to "leap frog" over Dr. Dartnell's "centuries of Western progression" if the device were solar powered, or even if it were powered by a hand cranked generator.

(th)
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Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sun May 07, 2017 12:07 am

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170506 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 2 on page 13

In this paragraph Dr, Dartnell provides the example of the entire nation of Japan performing a "feat of leapfrogging".

This example does differ from the apocalypse theme of "The Knowledge" in that the leap was triggered by an impulse from a more advanced society, and subsequently supported by "foreign experts".

The new topic I'd like to introduce today is an addition to the them of an economy based upon atom assemblers.

As a reminder, atom assemblers exist all over the Earth today, in the form of biological machinery. Human devised and controlled atom assemblers can be expected to operate at just about the same pace as biological ones.

A 1 meter diameter telescope mirror could be expected to take at least a year. It seems reasonable (to me at least) to envision a finished mirror extruded from an output frame having the dimensions of the cross section of the mirror at its widest point, and height as chosen by the designer to insure a stable base for the mirror.

It is perfectly feasible to generate a mockup of such a mirror using 3D Printers as they exist today, with the caveat that every 3D Printer I have seen in real life, or in description, uses the force of gravity to hold the output of the extruding nozzle in place while the material cools and forms a bond with the previously laid layers. It might turn out that a telescope mirror slab would need to be built upon an incline, so that gravity assists with holding material in place as layers are added.

(th)
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Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat May 13, 2017 3:30 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170513 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 1 on page 14

In this paragraph Dr, Dartnell sets up the question to be addressed following paragraphs.

At issue is the infrastructure that is needed for a particular technology to be realized.

It seems to me that in our daily lives, even though we live in 2017 (or later), chances are that most of us are incapable of building any of the artifacts that are all around us.

The rarity of individual capability is illustrated by the success of a cable television series broadcast in the United States, featuring a competition between metal workers.

A typical episode will bring three craftspeople to a forge/workshop, where the master of ceremonies will announce the object to be made from scratch, and judges will test the work in realistic ways, such as by cutting a carcass of an animal. From my observations of this series, most contestants have years if not decades of experience working with metal. In the previous century, every village might have had a blacksmith who practiced metal working at this level, but my impression is that people with these skills are few and far between, in a population of 300 million.

In the article dated June 3, 2012, at: http://stayathomewelder.blogspot.com/20 ... tpwww.html

The author asserts that there are only 500 (or so) professional blacksmiths in the United States, drawn from a population of between 5,000 and 10,000 non-professionals.

In thinking about an economy based upon atom assemblers, I am anticipating a more equal distribution of manufacturing capability over the population, as an alternative to the complex systems of manufacture that provide most of the goods desired and needed by the population of Earth. I can well imagine that individuals would find themselves drawn to working with particular materials, or to building particular kinds of complex systems, such as clocks. However, in this scenario, the ability to understand, to operate, and to repair an atom assembler would be common knowledge shared by most educated citizens.

(th)
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