20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat May 20, 2017 6:16 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170520 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 2 on page 14

Before addressing Paragraph 2, I'd like to call attention to a surprise intake of water at the Svalgard Seed Bank, as mentioned in "The Knowledge" on Page 55.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rost-melts

According to Damian Carrington's report, no seeds were damaged, but global warming has revealed deficiencies in the original design for the seed repository.

While the custodians of the vault are addressing the immediate problem of melting permafrost, I hope they will pay attention to the quite reasonable prospect that all ice on the planet will melt.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magaz ... line-maps/

It seems to me that wisdom would suggest relocating the repository to an elevation 216 feet (66 meters) higher than at present, or building a hill of 216 feet elevation around the existing location.

At issue in Paragraph 2 is the infrastructure that is needed for a particular technology to be realized. Dr. Dartnell cites the example of Leonardo Da Vinci, who conceived of and even designed a number of systems which he could not build for lack of the tools and materials and human skills needed.

Dr. Dartnell points out that Da Vinci lacked a means of generating the required power for flight, as well as the means of building a suitable air frame.

In paragraph 3 of the current page, Dr. Dartnell is going to introduce the concept of a "sweet-spot" of technology, which might be achievable by persons with limited resources, skills and knowledge in a hypothetical future. I remain concerned that the vast majority of human beings living on Earth in 2017 would not be able to achieve even the most limited expression of technology.

To explore this concern, I tried a Google search for the string "what children should learn in school"

While most of the 271 million results will be irrelevant, the first page of results seem reasonably well related to the question.

A friend is an working engineer, with experience in a wide variety of fields. When I asked recently about suggestions for spectrum analysis of a device which created noise in the radio frequency bands, he responded that while my existing book on FFT mathematics might be helpful, it would be more helpful to have a foundation in communications theory.

My point here is that even an individual in 2017 will inevitably find that there exists a foundation of knowledge and practice and skill that would help with any task that might be undertaken.

Any compendium that might be prepared for a possible reader in a distant future after a regression of civilization ought to be quite useful in 2017, in all parts of the world, because there is a new generation of ignorant human beings who will remain ignorant and potentially easily misled if they are not caught up on some sort of education.

***
Speaking of regression of civilization .... The current (May/June 2017) issue of Analog Science Fiction and Fact contains a short story by Igor Teper that seems quite appropriate for mention in Dr. Dartnell's forum:
"The speed of Faith in Vacuum".

Igor Teper supports a web site: igorteper.com

The story is set on a planetary surface, where 311 human beings survive after centuries of struggle. They have moved into caves which are sealed against biological life that is native to the planet, and which causes a rapid and disagreeable death if introduced into the human body. The survivors are kept in a hopeful frame of mind by the periodic visits of a space ship that checks in on scattered Earth colonies every few hundred years.

Mr. (?Dr?) Teper provides a scenario of disaster, struggle and the use of technology to survive against the pressures of the Universe. His scope includes the planet bound contingent, but extends to the space vehicle and the crew which is itself engaged in a centuries long struggle against entropy.

While the loss of the entire Earth is assumed for this story, I came away with a faint sense of hope that the few surviving Earth colonies might pull out of the regression which (I presume from context) each of them has endured, and that the cycling space ship might survive as well, until (optimist that I am) it might be rebuilt by graduates of institutions of higher education that would have to have been build up essentially from scratch in at least one of the colonies.

For the link to scenarios imaged in "The Knowledge", I like Igor Teper's vision of a travelling pocket/packet of advanced knowledge to visit small groups of survivors, trying to help them appropriately to the stage of regression (or eventually progression) where they are.

(th)
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat May 20, 2017 6:16 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170520 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 2 on page 14

Before addressing Paragraph 2, I'd like to call attention to a surprise intake of water at the Svalgard Seed Bank, as mentioned in "The Knowledge" on Page 55.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rost-melts

According to Damian Carrington's report, no seeds were damaged, but global warming has revealed deficiencies in the original design for the seed repository.

While the custodians of the vault are addressing the immediate problem of melting permafrost, I hope they will pay attention to the quite reasonable prospect that all ice on the planet will melt.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magaz ... line-maps/

It seems to me that wisdom would suggest relocating the repository to an elevation 216 feet (66 meters) higher than at present, or building a hill of 216 feet elevation around the existing location.

At issue in Paragraph 2 is the infrastructure that is needed for a particular technology to be realized. Dr. Dartnell cites the example of Leonardo Da Vinci, who conceived of and even designed a number of systems which he could not build for lack of the tools and materials and human skills needed.

Dr. Dartnell points out that Da Vinci lacked a means of generating the required power for flight, as well as the means of building a suitable air frame.

In paragraph 3 of the current page, Dr. Dartnell is going to introduce the concept of a "sweet-spot" of technology, which might be achievable by persons with limited resources, skills and knowledge in a hypothetical future. I remain concerned that the vast majority of human beings living on Earth in 2017 would not be able to achieve even the most limited expression of technology.

To explore this concern, I tried a Google search for the string "what children should learn in school"

While most of the 271 million results will be irrelevant, the first page of results seem reasonably well related to the question.

A friend is an working engineer, with experience in a wide variety of fields. When I asked recently about suggestions for spectrum analysis of a device which created noise in the radio frequency bands, he responded that while my existing book on FFT mathematics might be helpful, it would be more helpful to have a foundation in communications theory.

My point here is that even an individual in 2017 will inevitably find that there exists a foundation of knowledge and practice and skill that would help with any task that might be undertaken.

Any compendium that might be prepared for a possible reader in a distant future after a regression of civilization ought to be quite useful in 2017, in all parts of the world, because there is a new generation of ignorant human beings who will remain ignorant and potentially easily misled if they are not caught up on some sort of education.

***
Speaking of regression of civilization .... The current (May/June 2017) issue of Analog Science Fiction and Fact contains a short story by Igor Teper that seems quite appropriate for mention in Dr. Dartnell's forum:
"The speed of Faith in Vacuum".

Igor Teper supports a web site: igorteper.com

The story is set on a planetary surface, where 311 human beings survive after centuries of struggle. They have moved into caves which are sealed against biological life that is native to the planet, and which causes a rapid and disagreeable death if introduced into the human body. The survivors are kept in a hopeful frame of mind by the periodic visits of a space ship that checks in on scattered Earth colonies every few hundred years.

Mr. (?Dr?) Teper provides a scenario of disaster, struggle and the use of technology to survive against the pressures of the Universe. His scope includes the planet bound contingent, but extends to the space vehicle and the crew which is itself engaged in a centuries long struggle against entropy.

While the loss of the entire Earth is assumed for this story, I came away with a faint sense of hope that the few surviving Earth colonies might pull out of the regression which (I presume from context) each of them has endured, and that the cycling space ship might survive as well, until (optimist that I am) it might be rebuilt by graduates of institutions of higher education that would have to have been build up essentially from scratch in at least one of the colonies.

For the link to scenarios imaged in "The Knowledge", I like Igor Teper's vision of a travelling pocket/packet of advanced knowledge to visit small groups of survivors, trying to help them appropriately to the stage of regression (or eventually progression) where they are.

(th)
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sun May 28, 2017 5:48 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170527 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 3 on page 14

Before addressing Paragraph 3, I'd like to identify the Atom Assembler topic I'm considering for today's post. A tool called a "vice" is a basic element of a workshop, whether that shop is oriented toward a particular material or a variety of materials. Most vice that I have seen are made primarily of iron, with various additional atoms such as chromium added to provide particular properties.

My working estimate for assembly time of a typical home workshop vice would be a year, due to the large number of iron atoms to be placed in position, and to the specific momentum requirements for the atoms to be moved into position so that the resulting matrix has the desired character when the work is finished. While current metal working procedures involve heat treatment, I am making a guess that atoms can be placed precisely as needed to achieve the desired character of the bulk material without application of a generic heating and quenching process.

In Paragraph 3 on Page 14, Dr. Dartnell continues development of the theme of "The Knowledge", which I understand to be serving as a guide to persons faced with an absence of features of the environment we take for granted in developed nations in 2017 on Earth. In this paragraph, Dr. Dartnell describes his vision of reaching for a "sweet-spot" where the gains of centuries and millennia of painful knowledge acquisition on Earth can be brought forward to persons with only "rudimentary materials" and limited knowledge.

Because I am taking this pass through "The Knowledge" at a glacial pace, I have time to consider the implications of each of Dr. Dartnell's paragraphs for an entire week. Over the past few weeks, I have become more and more aware of an alternative to a printed book, which would be an automated version of "Socrates" or perhaps "Archimedes".

An appropriate name for such an automated education system would be "Aristotle".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great

What I am going for here is a instrument capable of adapting its presentation to the state of readiness of the subject it finds itself trying to help, including the material environment, including the psychological environment which would exist. Such an instrument could be reproduced and put to use today, in 2017, as a way of chipping away at the lack of education for both boys and girls around the world, most certainly including in many parts of the United States.

***
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:16 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170603 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 4 on page 14, extending through the top of page 15

Continuing from last week, because I am taking this pass through "The Knowledge" at a glacial pace, I have time to consider the implications of each of Dr. Dartnell's paragraphs for an entire week. Over the past few weeks, I have become more and more aware of an alternative to a printed book, which would be an automated version of "Aristotle", who served as tutor for Alexander the Great.

In Paragraph 4, Dr. Dartnell continues developing the concept he went on to achieve with "The Knowledge", of a "quick-start manual".

He concludes this paragraph with a vision of a way that our "ancestors" might provide:
Begin Quotation:
... a flashlight and a rough map of the landscape.
End Quotation.

Numerous science fiction writers whose works have come my way over the years have envisioned artificially intelligent support for human beings caught up in "recovery of civilization" scenarios. In the latest example of a "recovery of civilization" scenario I have seen, there is NO mention of artificial intelligence. In the story "Kepler's Law" by Jay Werkheiser (Analog May/June 2017), Mr. Werkheiser posits a selection of the most suitable humans from a population of multiple billions on Earth, and plenty of advanced computing and manufacturing technology. The story pivots around biological science however, starting with the clever development of genetic enhancements that permit hibernation during extended space flight, and crucially, the knowledge of a single individual able to diagnose an "illness" that threatens to wipe out the small team that has reached Kepler.

It seems to me that a well designed, artificially intelligent mentor/tutor could be put to use immediately in every region of the Earth, wherever children are growing up without adequate or even ANY education. The task before each such mentor/tutor would be very similar to the task that Dr. Dartnell's disaster scenario survivor faces, in needing to develop the ability to survive in the world as it exists, and to climb up the ladder of civilization in a mere 12 to 16 years.

When the first of these mentor/tutor systems are brought into existence, they can be replicated at the cost of materials and electricity, and distributed to the billions of young humans who would benefit from their availability.

For the purposes of "The Knowledge", which presumes the disappearance of a significant fraction of the population and near end of sophisticated flows of goods and services around the globe, it would be helpful to have a force of such mentor/tutors available to adapt to the circumstances of each human to be assisted.

(th)
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:45 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170610 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 1 on page 15

In Paragraph 4, Dr. Dartnell continued developing the concept he went on to achieve with "The Knowledge", of a "quick-start manual".
In Paragraph 1 on page 15, Dr. Dartnell foresees a time when the supply of easily available stored chemical energy will be exhausted, and a recovering community will be impelled toward renewable energy as an example of leaping over phases of our historical technological development.

The situation of a community to be established on Mars or the Moon would be very similar although more severe, and we don't have to wait until after a collapse of civilization to accept the challenges of not just survival, but maintenance of a comfortable life for everyone involved.

Dr. Dartnell closes this paragraph with his evocation of "a green reboot". For those who will be developing for locations away from Earth, AND for many locations on Earth in 2017, the direction would appear (to me) to be toward a "green boot". Communities of a few hundred persons can attempt to set up shop in remote locations on Earth, to experiment with both survival and comfortable living scenarios which would serve as models for similar attempts away from the Earth.

(th)
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:36 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170617 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 2 on page 15

This paragraph concludes the Introduction chapter.

With this paragraph, Dr. Dartnell provides a glimpse of a possible future characterized by uneven expression of technology across multiple eras, reflecting the greatly varying levels of knowledge and skill and available resources of survivors.

In glancing ahead at the 300 pages to follow, I am aware of the magnitude of the effort Dr. Dartnell undertook, and of the challenge for anyone who might follow along in his wake, or on his trail, as some might prefer.

While I expect to be considering the apocalypse scenario upon which Dr. Dartnell has framed his work, my main interest remains the challenge of designing and building, not just a survival environment, but a fully realized "civilized" environment, whether implemented on a desert on Earth, in the Antarctic on Earth, in an ocean habitat on Earth, or in any of the multiple potential locations available within the solar system and beyond.

Because I had concluded that at least 1,000,000 people would be needed to preserve the elements of civilization we take for granted in 2017, I was pleased to see that Elon Musk is thinking in terms of 1,000,000 people for his proposed Mars settlement.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacexs-mar ... rson-city/

(th)
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170624 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 1 on page 16

This paragraph opens a three page sequence entitled "Contents"

In this opening, Dr. Dartnell previews his twin goals of creating a collection of "practical knowledge" and providing support for "recovery of scientific investigation".

In thinking about the second of these objectives, I find myself facing the apparent rise of anti-scientific thinking in the United States. My guess is that such thinking has been present in the society, and on the continent, for that matter, for as far back as human beings have been present. However, the peculiar structure of the United States electoral system has permitted ascendancy of this pattern of thought to the highest levels of political power in the country. It appears to me that the very survival of the American experiment is very much at risk.

How much worse it would be if any of the apocalyptic scenarios Dr. Dartnell will be considering in the next part of "The Knowledge" come to pass? The human population has NOT experienced scientific thinking at a significant level at any time in its history (as nearly as I can tell). Only a tiny part of the population have been both gifted with the ability and gifted with the receptivity of mind to employ this intellectual tool.

***
As an addendum to this thread, I would like to add this link:
http://www.dispatch.com/opinion/2017061 ... of-poverty

In this opinion piece, writer Amy Klaben responds to a recent speech by a member of the current administration in the United States.

Ms. Klaben addresses a topic from the speech: "ladders of opportunity"

It seems to me that the issues Dr. Dartnell considers in "The Knowledge", for recovery from a global disaster, might just as well be considered for many of the residents of the United States today in 2017, or in many if not all other nations on Earth.

The bottom line that I think I am seeing, whether we are considering a disaster, deployment of a human community away from Earth, or living in any of a multitude of failing communities around the Earth, is that the social structure must be capable of creating "ladders of opportunity" for members of the community.

Generosity of Spirit seems to me to be a more significant indicator of success of a community than practically another other attribute.

(th)
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum
20170701 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 2 on page 16

The focus of this paragraph is a phase within which remnants of the pre-existing civilization remain available to sustain survivors.

As I look out at the situation of the population of Earth in 2017, it seems to me that a significant part of the population are living in conditions that are similar to those Dr. Dartnell describes, except that the essentials for comfortable living are NOT present.

In taking this painstakingly slow pass through "The Knowledge", I expect to have plenty of time to think about the similarity between the conditions Dr. Dartnell describes after a failure of civilization, and the reality any of us face in our daily lives. The convenience of steady supply of healthy food, clean water, ample reliable electric power and gas for cooking and heating are luxuries many of us take for granted, while at the same time, and often in the same region, there are persons who cannot claim any of these things.

In re-reading "The Knowledge", I hope to find, or at least catch glimpses, of insights that might help individuals living in the uneven civilization that exists in 2017 to improve their situations.

In closing this paragraph, Dr. Dartnell offers the prospect of scavenging useful capabilities from the "detritus of the dead civilization". I observe that countless thousands if not millions of people on Earth today are engaged in scavenging useful capabilities from the the detritus of the "existing" civilization.

It seems to me that the key for success in building a 2017 first tier civilization anywhere on Earth is availability of sufficient energy, and availability of a sufficient number of persons with the appropriate talents. A book such as "The Knowledge" is a kernel from which a set of working mental structures can come into existence, if those people with talent are able and willing to coordinate their efforts.

The ability to form teams seems to me to be a skill that underlies the vision Dr. Dartnell offers, for construction of a comfortable living after an apocalypse, but that same skill seems essential to achievement of success today, in the uneven civilization that exists on Earth today.

(th)
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:49 pm

20170708 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Footnote 3 on page 16

The essential thrust of this footnote (as I read it) is to try to establish the relative importance of "real" science and practical "real" knowledge, compared to:
Begin Quotation:
Art, literature, and music ...
End Quotation

in last week's post, as this series enters the Contents chapter of "The Knowledge" highlighted the importance of team building for success in recovery, if that is the scenario, or building a community in a new location. I note that myth building will (surely) occur simultaneously with team building.

While Dr. Dartnell's focus in "The Knowledge" is steadfastly on the hard sciences, I note that those communities who possess human management skills will (surely) do better than those that don't.

In building a "current level" civilization on undeveloped land (or at sea for that matter) on Earth, it seems to me that the ability to inspire, motivate, education and direct individual human beings will assist greatly in achieving a successful outcome.

There is one mention of "language" in the Index of "The Knowledge", and it points to the opening of the chapter on Writing.

It seems to me that an underlying assumption that may exist for "The Knowledge" is that ** some ** language will exist at the time of need, and that a version of "The Knowledge" will exist in that language.

After thinking about the issues dealt with by "The Knowledge" for a number of months now, and taking into consideration the variety of persons I have met over the years, and who live in the community around me, it seems to me that only a fraction are capable of actually achieving any of the practical results Dr. Dartnell describes over the course of the manuscript. In contrast, it seems to me that almost everyone is engaged with the very subjects Footnote 3 identifies as unworthy of preservation in the context of "recovery of civilization".

Kim Stanley Robinson considers transplantation of an existing civilization from Earth to a Moon in the Tau Ceti system, in his book "Aurora". The scenario described plays out approximately 500 years in the future. Robinson considers a population of about 2500 people (more or less) sustained over (about) 170 years of travel from Earth.

While this is just one of many attempts to visualize how humans might attempt to set up a community away from Earth, I note the care with which Robinson has attempted to plan his community and the environment.

To Dr. Dartnell's point in Footnote 3, Robinson makes clear that sustaining the technology of Earth of 2500 (or so) is a primary concern of the population. Robinson postulates what strikes me as a reasonably enlightened form of democratic decision making, but he does not mention "art, literature, and music" at all (that I can recall).

(th)
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: 20160208 Vision Author Culture on Knowledge Forum

Postby tahanson43206 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:39 pm

20170715 The element from Reference #1 for focus today is Paragraph 3 on page 16.
This paragraph carries over to page 17.

This paragraph describes Dr. Dartnell's plan for "The Knowledge", to include basic agriculture and chemistry.

Concurrently with this thread, I am following the voyage of Ferdinand Magellan 497 years ago, the observations of Adam Smith (approximately) 240 years ago, and projections of scenarios for human exploration and settlement of space up to 500 years from now.

Magellan's expedition was state-of-the-art for his time, but the unknowns he faced seem (to me) greater than those that will face humans moving away from Earth 500 years from now, primarily because of advances in remote information gathering that have come about in 500 years, and which will surely be available 500 years from now.

To the scenario posed by Dr. Dartnell, I am becoming increasingly aware that no one individual is going to be able to achieve the understanding and practical skill that would be needed to bring the pages of "The Knowledge" to life.

(th)
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
tahanson43206
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:38 pm

PreviousNext

Return to New members

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron