20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:08 pm

Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation
20170605 Reference #1 Page lx

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.

I wondered what the weather might have been like in Magellan's time. It is likely that the expedition log books would have recorded the conditions that the crew endured during the layover, but assuming the weather is comparable today to what it was then, we have this report, from https://www.windfinder.com/webcams/puerto_san_julian

***
Wind and weather webcams
Puerto San Julián
Maps
13mph West-Northwest
43°F
Overcast
Data based on our forecast model SUNRISE
9:18 SUNSET
17:40 LOCAL TIME
11:53 am (UTC -3) ELEVATION 62 m
***
Antonio Pigafetta reported about this period, on page 12 of Reference #1
Begin Quotation:
We passed two months there without seeing any people.
End Quotation.

According to Wikipedia, the Tehuelche people had a history of over 14,500 years in the region.

Begin Quotation:
The Tehuelche people have a history of over 14,500 years in the region, based on archeological findings.[7] Their pre-Columbian history is divided in three main stages: a stage with highly-sized rock tools, a stage where the use of boleadoras prevailed over the peaked projectiles, and a third one of highly complex rock tools, each one with a specific purpose.[8] The nomadic lifestyle of Tehuelches left scarce archeological evidence of their past.[9]
End Quotation.

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Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:15 pm

Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation
20170612 Reference #1 Page lx

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.

I wondered what the weather might have been like in Magellan's time. It is likely that the expedition log books would have recorded the conditions that the crew endured during the layover, but assuming the weather is comparable today to what it was then, we have this report, from https://www.windfinder.com/webcams/puerto_san_julian

***

Wind: 46 mph West
43°F
Sky clear
Report from local weather station at 2:00 pm local time. SUNRISE 9:23 SUNSET 17:38 LOCAL TIME 4:01 pm (UTC -3) ELEVATION 62 m

For winter, those conditions don't sound too bad.

***
The reconstructed display of Victoria shows a cow below decks.

In Antonio Pigafetta's report of the voyage, he mentions at one point the expedition leaving a group of men ashore with pigs, which I assume would have been provided for sustenance.

At some point I hope to find a reference showing the provisions loaded back in Spain.

In the meantime, on Page 17 of Reference #1, Antonio Pigaffeta's report reveals what some of the crew were doing during the layover at Port St. Julian.

Begin Quotation: (speaking of members of the crew assigned to recover supplies from the Santiago)...
It was necessary for us to bring them food for two months, while each day supplies from the ship [that was wrecked] were recovered. The journey there was twenty-four leagues long (or one hundred miles), ...
End Quotation.

(th)
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Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:45 pm

Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation
20170619 Reference #1 Page lx

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.
For the first two months of this period, members of the crew transported supplies from the wreck of the Santiago. The distance overland was about 100 miles, and the journey took four days.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.

I wondered what the weather might have been like in Magellan's time. It is likely that the expedition log books would have recorded the conditions that the crew endured during the layover, but assuming the weather is comparable today to what it was then, we have this report, from https://www.windfinder.com/webcams/puerto_san_julian

***
Wind and weather webcams
Puerto San Julián
Maps
Wind 15mph West-Southwest
37°F
Sky clear
Data based on our forecast model
SUNRISE 9:27 SUNSET 17:37 LOCAL TIME 10:43 am (UTC -3) ELEVATION 62 m
May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.
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Posts: 389
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Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation
20170626 Reference #1 Page lx

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.
For the first two months of this period, members of the crew transported supplies from the wreck of the Santiago. The distance overland was about 100 miles, and the journey took four days.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.

I wondered what the weather might have been like in Magellan's time. It is likely that the expedition log books would have recorded the conditions that the crew endured during the layover, but assuming the weather is comparable today to what it was then, we have this report, from https://www.windfinder.com/webcams/puerto_san_julian

***
Wind and weather webcams
Puerto San Julián
Maps
Wind 9 mph Southwest
Temperature 32°F Skies Broken
Data based on our forecast model SUNRISE 9:28 SUNSET 17:39 LOCAL TIME 10:29 am (UTC -3) ELEVATION 62 m

This weather report does not include precipitation.

This site does include precipitation:
https://www.yr.no/place/Argentina/Santa ... an_Julian/

(th)
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tahanson43206
 
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Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation
20170703 Reference #1 Page lx

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.
For the first two months of this period, members of the crew transported supplies from the wreck of the Santiago. The distance overland was about 100 miles, and the journey took four days.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.

I wondered what the weather might have been like in Magellan's time. It is likely that the expedition log books would have recorded the conditions that the crew endured during the layover, but assuming the weather is comparable today to what it was then, we have this report, from https://www.windfinder.com/webcams/puerto_san_julian

***
Wind and weather webcams
Puerto San Julián
Wind 23 mph North-Northwest
54°F Overcast
Data based on our forecast model SUNRISE 9:27 SUNSET 17:42 LOCAL TIME 11:25 am (UTC -3) ELEVATION 62 m

***
During this period members of the crew continued moving supplies from the wreck of the Santiago across a distance of about 100 miles.

On page 17 of Reference one, Antonio Pigafetta reported on this situation in his post [32]. In addition, elsewhere in Reference #1, Pigafetta reported that the crew built a small building on the shore for a smith to set up a workshop. In addition:
Begin Quotation;
There were very many long shellfish that are called missiglioni in that port (they had pearls in them), but they were too small to be eaten. Incense, ostriches, foxes, sparrows, and rabbits much smaller than ours were also found.
End Quotation.

In the paragraph above, Mr. Pigafetta mentions the hardship experienced by the sailors who were carrying supplies from the wrecked Santiago back to the location of the rest of the expedition. Pigafetta mentions thorns on the trail, and this caused me to wonder if the sailors had shoes. I found an account of the expedition of Captain Cook two centuries later, which reported that common seamen even of those times often did not wear shoes, and even preferred to climb rigging barefoot. It seems quite likely to me that the common seamen of Magellan's time would not have worn shoes, so the trip overland would have been a challenge for them.

From these fragments of the report, I deduce that the three months in Puerto San Julian were filled with activity, in addition to the mutiny which occurred at the beginning of this period.

In Note 91 of Reference #1, over a page is devoted to details of the mutiny and Magellan's actions to recovery control of the expedition.

In Note 92 (presumably by Editor Theodore J. Cachey Jr):
Begin Quotation:
The account of the shipwreck and rescue is very inadequate.
End Quotation.

In Reference #4, on page 12, the crew of the Aurora is given as 2122. Later, on page 84, the crew has increased to 2224.

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Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:04 pm

20170710 Reference #1 Page lx

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.
For the first two months of this period, members of the crew transported supplies from the wreck of the Santiago. The distance overland was about 100 miles, and the journey took four days.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.

I wondered what the weather might have been like in Magellan's time. It is likely that the expedition log books would have recorded the conditions that the crew endured during the layover, but assuming the weather is comparable today to what it was then, we have this report, from https://www.windfinder.com/webcams/puerto_san_julian

***
Puerto San Julián Maps Wind: 9mph Southwest 43°F
Few clouds
Data based on our forecast model
SUNRISE 9:23 SUNSET 17:49 LOCAL TIME 1:45 pm (UTC -3)
ELEVATION
62 m
***
The Magellan Expedition of 1519 was originally chosen for this thread because it lasted for three years, and the timeline appeared to offer ample opportunity for consideration of possible future exploration or settlement activities by human beings 500 years in our future, or 1000 years from Magellan's time.

Inevitably, the story as reported in Reference #1 stimulated questions, so I have added Reference #10 to supplement the Pigafetta record, as edited.

10) Magellan and the First Voyage Around the World
Nancy Smiler Levinson

Ms. Levinson is an author of books for children, so her work is clear and thorough. She does not shrink from reporting the extreme violence that occurred during the period, but from the perspective of 2001, I sense that she regards it as excessive.

That said, Ms. Levinson provides a background for the voyage, with a review of the early life, education and military adventures of Ferdinand Magellan, and the remarkable circumstances that led to his winning support of the newly crowned King of Spain to support his project to find a Western passage to the Spice Islands.

(th)
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Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:35 pm

20170717 Reference #1 Page lx

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.
For the first two months of this period, members of the crew transported supplies from the wreck of the Santiago. The distance overland was about 100 miles, and the journey took four days.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.

I wondered what the weather might have been like in Magellan's time. It is likely that the expedition log books would have recorded the conditions that the crew endured during the layover, but assuming the weather is comparable today to what it was then, we have this report, from https://www.windfinder.com/webcams/puerto_san_julian

***
Wind and weather webcams
Puerto San Julián
Maps: wind 21 mph West
50°F Few clouds
Report from local weather station at 2:00 pm local time. SUNRISE 9:19 SUNSET 17:54 LOCAL TIME 3:33 pm (UTC -3) ELEVATION 62 m

***
The purpose in selecting the Magellan Expedition of 1519 for this thread was primarily to provide a framework for consideration of factors that may or are likely to have significance for exploration away from the Earth, over (approximately) the next 500 years. Reference #1 was chosen as the guide with which to follow the expedition. However, Reference #8 (Nancy Smiler Levinson) became available, and I have found it to be a valuable companion book to the original report translated from Antonio Pigafetta's manuscript.

As of this day, 497 years ago, the expedition has been at anchor in Puerto San Julian for more than two months.

Begin Quotation from Reference #8, Page 68 (Index reference: Patagonia)
All together, the miserable ordeal of waiting at San Julian lasted five months. Provisions were pitifully low. The only available fresh food was mussels. There were large ostrichlike birds believed to be rheas (also called nandus), and big rodents nearby; however, the men had difficulty hunting them. The bitter, intense cold never let up. Several men perished.
End Quotation

Reference #4 (Kim Stanley Robinson) is a work of fiction in which Mr. Robinson displays (to my eye) remarkable world building skills. While the story contains plot elements which are required by the medium, I appreciate the details revealed like little gems along a pathway, about design of the ship, interactions of the crew with each other and with the AI that Robinson imagines as the controller of the environment, and reflections on how the humans still on Earth might have supported the expedition electronically.

As of page 168, the expedition has arrived on a moon of a planet of Tau Ceti, and a landing team has established a small community, using technology Mr. Robinson has imagined for the occasion.

It at this point in the story, for what I am sure would have been good reasons, Mr. Robinson introduces a major difficulty which (I presume) will put the entire enterprise in doubt.

However, the pages leading up to this point contain a number of visionary elements which I think are worthy of consideration by those who will be planning expeditions in the future.

(th)
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Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:15 pm

20170724 Reference #1 Page lx

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.
For the first two months of this period, members of the crew transported supplies from the wreck of the Santiago. The distance overland was about 100 miles, and the journey took four days.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.

I wondered what the weather might have been like in Magellan's time. It is likely that the expedition log books would have recorded the conditions that the crew endured during the layover, but assuming the weather is comparable today to what it was then, we have this report, from https://www.windfinder.com/webcams/puerto_san_julian

***
Wind and weather webcams
Puerto San Julián Maps Wind 24mph West-Southwest
Temperature 45°F
Overcast
Data based on our forecast model SUNRISE 9:12 SUNSET 18:02 LOCAL TIME 12:11 pm (UTC -3) ELEVATION 62 m
***
According to Antonio Pigafetta, about two months into the stay at Puerto San Julian, a native of the land now called Patagonia appeared on the shore.
A likeness of this native is included in the replica of the Victoria that was installed in Puerto San Julian in recent years.
***
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Posts: 389
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Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:59 pm

20170731 Reference #1 Page lx

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.
For the first two months of this period, members of the crew transported supplies from the wreck of the Santiago. The distance overland was about 100 miles, and the journey took four days.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.

I wondered what the weather might have been like in Magellan's time. It is likely that the expedition log books would have recorded the conditions that the crew endured during the layover, but assuming the weather is comparable today to what it was then, we have this report, from https://www.windfinder.com/webcams/puerto_san_julian

***
Wind and weather webcams
Puerto San Julián
Maps Wind 7 kts East
7°C Overcast
Data based on our forecast model
SUNRISE 8:56 SUNSET 18:18 LOCAL TIME 17:39 (UTC -3)
ELEVATION
62 m

20170731 Magellan Expedition Thread

497 years ago, in August of 1520, Magellan and his fleet of four remaining ships, and his crew now reduced by mutiny, have been waiting out the Antarctic winter in Puerto San Julian. The voyage resumed on the 24th of August, so there will be activity and movement to report after that date.

Approximately 500 years in the future from 2017, Kim Stanley Robinson has imagined an expedition of (about) 2200 people from Earth to Aurora, a moon that might exist in the vicinity of the star System Tau Ceti.

240 years ago, Adam Smith was putting the finishing touches on one of the multiple editions of “The Wealth of Nations” which were published in following years. Mr. Smith provides a detailed look at the economic and political times in which he lived, as well as perspective on earlier human cultures, including Greek and Roman civilizations, Asian ones and others.

Dr. Dartnell provides an incentive for the multiple threads currently under way in the Knowledge Forum, via his imagining of a time when humans on Earth might be faced with the necessity of trying to rebuild civilization after a major catastrophe.

Ferdinand Magellan is a clear example of a leader who conceives of an exploration into the truly unknown, sells his vision to political and commercial funders, and then plans the expedition in meticulous detail, including supplies, personnel and expectations for interactions with humans he expects to meet along the way.

Mr. Robinson’s Aurora vision does not reveal details about the leadership which must have existed at the time the expedition to Aurora was conceived, sold, funded and assembled, in part because the story begins as the vessel is approaching its destination after a flight of over 100 years. Mr. Robinson ** does ** cause his characters to speak critically of the humans who put the expedition into motion, by casting doubt on the ethics of launching the expedition in the first place, and then by pointing out mistakes that revealed themselves as time went on.

Mr. Magellan lived in a time, and was surrounded by the European culture of Portugal and Spain, when behaviors that seem abhorrent to my sensibilities of 2017 occurred with some frequency. It seems to me, as I follow reports of the man and the expedition, that he was aware of the nature of the society of which he was a part, and held firmly in mind the goal of reaching the Spice Islands from the West which had not been achieved by anyone to that date. Despite the weaknesses of personnel and supplies and equipment revealed during the expedition, Magellan held to his purpose.

It seems to me that an outcome of Dr. Dartnell’s initiative might well be coalescing of a group of individuals interested in developing a vision of one or more simulations of the kind of expedition described by Mr. Robinson, to be built and operated on Earth in the near future, to test ideas such as those Mr. Robinson describes, and to find the kinds of human beings who could find contentment in living their entire lives in a volume of space on the order of the ship Mr. Robinson proposed.

Certainly in the past on Earth, there have been cultures which have lived with (apparent) contentment in relatively small geographic regions. However, it seems to me that the freedoms that have become available to human beings in recent centuries have become so accepted and almost second nature, that it might turn out to be difficult to find genotypes that would be able to accept physical restrictions of bodily movement, in return for intellectual excursion throughout the (knowable) Universe.

Finding people who would be willing to experiment with habitats such as the one Mr. Robinson describes appears to be possible. Volunteers have agreed to participate in experiments on a much smaller scale, albeit for known intervals.

The key for success (it seems to me) would be for individuals, and particularly for children born into such test societies, to be free to leave if they choose to do so. It is the lines that follow from those who choose to REMAIN that would be of potential interest for consideration for actual expeditions away from the Earth.

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Re: 20160920 Magellan Space City Designer Planet Simulation

Postby tahanson43206 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:44 pm

20170806 Reference #1

On this day in 1520, the Magellan Expedition continued a wait for favorable weather at Puerto San Julian.
For the first two months of this period, members of the crew transported supplies from the wreck of the Santiago. The distance overland was about 100 miles, and the journey took four days.

The voyage of exploration resumed on August 24, so there were three months of Southern wintry weather to endure.

***
Google provides a "Quick Fact" about the port where the expedition spent the next three months:
Begin Quotation:
Puerto San Julián is a natural harbour in Patagonia in the Santa Cruz Province of Argentina located at 49°18′S 67°43′W. In the days of sailing ships it formed a stopping point, 180 km south of Puerto Deseado.Wikipedia
End Quotation.
***
Last edited by tahanson43206 on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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